© UKClimbing Limited. It is stronger, and is even easier to untie after the load, than the standard Bowline. Here is my video to demonstrate the point — risk of Yosemite Bowline. > (In reply to Marcos31) Yes, safer all-round. If I tie in 20 times per week, I will tie in 1000 times per year, and 100,000 times per century (I won't live so long, but it is just for the sake of estimate). Javascript software libraries such as jQuery are loaded at endpoints on the googleapis.com or gstatic.com domains, for performance and efficiency reasons. (Google images of "sheet bend", which is bowline-like : that is usually presented from the helpful side; but bowline, almost never.). You can increase the safety of the knot by adding a stopper knot like the, Double Yosemite bowline – It is basically a, Easier to untie under wet and frozen conditions and after taking on a load than the. The two most popular variants, apart from Left-hand Bowline (also called Cowboy Bowline, Dutch Marine Bowline, and Winter Bowline, Ashley's #1034½), among climbers are Double-Bowline (Ashley's #1013) and Yosemite Bowline. Here is the detailed background, followed by some discussion. Reply: I had given links to various papers on Bowlines and knots in general. Bowline is more easily mistied than Figure-of-Eight. There are actually dozens of different 'Bowlines'. I think our group needs to take a field trip and you can teach us all how to rock climb! Even more disturbing is the shadyness of the research that is available to the climbing public. [6] The Mountaineering Handbook is one of the few texts that suggest that the Yosemite bowline is better for this purpose. Submitted by masa on Fri, 2018-06-15 21:46. Single bowline for sport and fig 8 for trad it is then! Weidner says it also takes more time and expertise to visually … Please choose which areas of our service you consent to our doing so. That person simply posted an experience that he was involved with - with a deliberately loosened knot and a deliberately induced snag. 8 (I once read actually safer than fig-8 which has potential to roll in this configuration). No stopper knot required (that's the point of the Yosemite finish). I use this for single pitch sport only and has two advantages: stopper knot on the outside; if the knot did loosen fully, you still end up with a regular bowline with a very long tail. [8], It is recommended that any knot which is used to attach a rope to a safety harness is always finished with a stopper knot. If you pull (yank) on the tail before the core of the knot is properly cinched tight - the tail will become 'displaced' to a position inside the nipping loop. Summary of failure mode: However, if Yosemite Bowline is tied in a (what I call) wrong-handed way, which is akin to the anti-Lapp Knot configuration, then the main Bowline part basically comes undone. However, there are still a considerable number of climbers who prefer to use Bowline knot or its variants. Why do you ignore the facts? But which is better, safer, more reliable? "Nowadays, a majority of climbers use Figure-of-Eight instead, primarily because Fig-8 is far more foolproof than Bowline.". This service allows you to sign up for or associate a Google AdSense account with HubPages, so that you can earn money from ads on your articles. I think you have a responsibility to correct your content. This knot is not as well known or as universally used as the figure 8—many climbers may not know how to check the bowline. The pics really demonstrate the knots you are writing about and is very informative. You can tie back to / belay from the rope loop as with fig. Therefore, when the knot is tightened under a load, it constricts its own tail-end, and so reduces the risk of getting weakened due to lack of (or undone) stopper knot. Interesting post. The failure mode is induced by pulling on the tail before the core of the knot has been properly cinched tight. It would be invalid to compare against a conventional 2WD car. We partner with Say Media to deliver ad campaigns on our sites. Inherently secure Bowlines include: EBSB Bowline, Scott's locked Bowline, Lee's link Bowline, Harry Butlers Yosemite Bowline. The Bowline knot (and its variants) have two advantages over Figure-of-Eight, that is, it is easier to untie, which is handy after the knot is heavily loaded (by falls), and is marginally quicker to tie. Submitted by Mark Gommers (not verified) on Thu, 2018-07-26 03:43, Quote from Masa: You could spend hours mining mountaineering and climbing forums for an answer, but you'll quickly come to realize that these forum commentators repeat themselves A LOT and that no one seems to have any real proof or data except "I use it and I haven't died yet." if the double bowline is tied incorrectly it would offer no protection to the climber. Submitted by ND (not verified) on Tue, 2020-05-05 19:29, Safety incident report involving Scott's Lock Bowline when snagged: https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=6773.msg44540#msg44540, Submitted by Mark Gommers (not verified) on Wed, 2020-05-06 23:04. Because of the danger of incorrectly tying the Yosemite bowline, it may be safer and less error-prone to use a standard or double bowline with a backup stopper knot added to the tail, such as a double overhand knot tied around the loop.[3][4]. No data is shared with Paypal unless you engage with this feature. This content is accurate and true to the best of the author’s knowledge and is not meant to substitute for formal and individualized advice from a qualified professional. For an article all about bowline variations, and a variation that the author believes is even better than the double bowline or “Yosemite” version, click here. Your article is misleading because it zeros in on one particular type of 'Bowline' (the Yosemite Bowline) - which is known to have have certain vulnerabilities. For more information on managing or withdrawing consents and how we handle data, visit our Privacy Policy at: https://maven.io/company/pages/privacy. Submitted by KnudeNoggin (not verified) on Thu, 2020-05-07 19:38, Before this runs into another venting verbosity from u-no-hoo, Some knots are considered stronger than others in that they do not cause as much uneven stress on the core of the rope. These double bowline converts love that the knot: Some concerns about the double bowline are that: Many climbers are mistrustful of the double bowline, and you will hear various fears about the safety of the double bowline that are largely unsupported by research. Essentially, Double Bowline keeps all the basic principles (and hence cons) of the standard Bowline, but advances some of them. Mark Gommers, Submitted by MH (not verified) on Thu, 2018-06-28 10:48. This displaces the tail to a position outside of the nipping loop thus altering the knot structure. it will usually still protect the climber if it is tied incorrectly. I am a strong believer of Murphy's law: Anything that can go wrong will. That means the acceptable probability of mistying the harness tying-point is smaller than 1 in 10 millions, or 0.00001%. "I would appreciate the reference to support your argument, if you could give one – and hence the discussion that follows." Your words 'Figure 8 is far more foolproof than knot XYZ' is a relative concept.
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